The Full Stop

Childless, Holidays, Boundaries & Belonging: Navigating Workplace Equity

Katy Schnitzler returns to The Full Stop five years on — now fresh off submitting her PhD — to dig into one of the thorniest workplace issues for people who are childless not by choice: holidays, leave, and boundaries. The conversation moves from the personal (the strange non-celebration of finishing a PhD, the "full stop" feeling of an ending without ceremony) into the structural: school-holiday leave bias, rota and shift unfairness, "informal favours" for parents, and the particular pressures faced by teachers, midwives and nurses who are childless. Katy shares findings from her doctoral research and her Pronatalism at Work project, and the group works through practical, non-judgemental ways organisations can make leave, language and culture fairer for everyone, without taking anything away from parents. We're talking about ...

• Holiday and school-term leave bias against childless employees
• "Informal favours," rota unfairness and the assumption that childless staff have nothing to rush home for
• Teaching, midwifery and nursing as flashpoints for childless professionals
• Ambiguous and disenfranchised grief — why childlessness grief isn't always recognised, even by therapists
• Pronatalism in the workplace: baby showers, scan photos, "doing it for the kids" culture
• The intersection of childlessness with disability, chronic illness, singleness and bereavement
• Practical, low-cost fixes: transparent leave/booking systems, anonymous feedback, external training, first-come-first-served leave policies

Takeaways

• Holidays are emotionally loaded for people without children — naming that openly (without banning the topic) helps everyone.
• "Gentle challenge" responses ("that's not always how it feels") put the work back on the person making assumptions, not the person experiencing them.
• Transparent, first-come-first-served leave systems can remove parental status from the equation entirely.
• Anonymous feedback on workload and leave can surface disparities before they become resentment.
• External, MIST training takes the emotional load off the person going through it — they don't have to "out" themselves to get change.
• This isn't bashing parents. It's about making space at the table for everyone's story.

Guest

Katy Schnitzler — academic and corporate trainer specialising in reproductive health and childlessness (pregnancy loss, infertility, menstrual health, menopause). Founder of MIST Workshops (est. 2020), and author of doctoral research including the Pronatalism at Work project.

Listen to the Full Conversation

We cover a lot of ground, from anticipatory grief and adoption to the specific dynamics of shift work, IVF and rota fairness.

• Learn about the Full Stop on our website and donate to our work at KOFI
• Childless people are invited to join the Full Stop Community for support, episode discussion and conversation.
• Learn more about Katy’s work and book training for your organisation at MIST Workshops.

The Full Stop is a podcast for people who are childless not by choice, and for everyone who loves, works alongside, or supports someone who is. New episodes drop regularly — subscribe wherever you listen.

 

Pull Up a Chair: Seven Years of The Full Stop

Seven years ago, Michael hit record, Sarah spoke and Berenice published episode 1 of the Full Stop pressed publish on the first episode. It was 20 minutes and 20 seconds long. There were 108 downloads. And neither of us had any idea what we were doing.

Episode 86 brings us together to mark seven years of honest conversation about childless life. Join us to listen back, reflect, and look forward.

In this episode:

• Hear clips from the very first Full Stop episode including the actual first words ever spoken on the podcast

• How each of us and our relationship with our own childless grief has changed over seven years

• Sarah talks about the concept of grief as a companion rather than an enemy and how that shift changes everything, with examples from Michael and Berenice on where their grief sits right now.

• Masking behind humour, anger that softens, and the wisdom that comes with time

• The childless landscape since 2019, and we talk about what's changed, what still needs to change, and why the conversation matters more than ever

• What the next seven years might look like — and how you can be part of them

• Why "you are not alone" was the phrase coined by Michael in Episode 1, way back in 2019 and why his words still say everything

Guests and community mentioned in this episode:

The Full Stop has been built on the generosity of its guests over seven years. Here are some of the key voices and resources referenced in this episode and throughout our library:

• Jody Day — Gateway Women — the original community and resource for childless women, founded by our first-ever guest

• Dr Robin Hadley — researcher and advocate for childless men

• Bibi Lynch — journalist and childlessness advocate - search Bibi Lynch, The Guardian

• Dr Stella Duffy, OBE — writer, activist, psychotherapist and theatremaker

• Jessica Hepburn — author, arts producer and activist and founder of Fertility Fest

• Sarah Lawrence — counsellor at After The Storm, specialising in childless grief

• World Childless Week 

• Ageing Without Children (AWOC) 

• Meriel Whale — Neurodivergent, childless and queer specialist counsellor for permanently childless people and celebrant

• Storyhouse Childless – an event held in Chester, UK for childless and childfree people

Find us:

• All episodes: bio.site/thefullstop

• Community: thefullstoppod.com/fullstopcommunity

• Support us: ko-fi.com/thefullstop

• hello@thefullstoppod.com

The Full Stop is a podcast for childless people and everyone who cares for them.

 

Helpline details

UK: Contact the Samaritans on freephone 116 123, they're open 24 hours and are there to listen and Mind.

USA: Suicide Prevention

Canada: Canada Crisis

Australia: Beyond Blue

Meriel Whale Counselling

Sarah Lawrence After The Storm

Pink Therapy (UK): Directory of LGBTQIA+ friendly therapists.

Many of our guests have channels online and blogs so you can follow what they do and read their words. Head to our podcast page, and click on the episode image to access the show notes and further reading.

Disclaimer

The Full Stop podcast and content posted by The Full Stop Community CIC is presented solely for general information, and educational purposes. The guests’ views may not represent those of the Full Stop Community CIC, online community members or the co-directors. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from this podcast or website is at the user’s own risk. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical or mental health condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions.

You Don't Have to Explain Yourself: Boundaries for Childless People

This is the episode for anyone who has ever frozen when someone asked an inappropriate question. For anyone who has said yes to something that cost them far more than it should have. For anyone who is tired of absorbing other people's thoughtlessness and is ready to do something about it.

Sandy Langhart-Michelet has spent over a decade building one of the most supportive online communities for childless people in the world — The Childless Life, now 3,500 members strong across the globe. She is also an HR professional with decades of experience in inclusion, a speaker at national conferences, and the author of My Family Tree Stops With Me: A Guide to Purpose and Possibility. She joins us from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, with warmth, humour and a toolkit that will genuinely change the way you navigate the hard conversations.

In this episode we cover:

• How Sandy went from freezing at inappropriate questions to building a question and answer bank and why preparing your responses in advance changes everything

• Scripts for the situations that catch us off guard: the baby shower invitation, the family day at work, the colleague who won't stop asking

• Why saying no doesn't need a reason and how to get comfortable with that

• The concept of consequences in boundary-setting: not as punishment, but as self-protection

• Legacy, family trees and what it means to be remembered when there is no one beneath you on the chart

• Why Sandy's book title My Family Tree Stops With Me is about so much more than genealogy

• The role of community in building confidence and how watching others find their words helps you find yours

• Inclusion in the workplace: parental status, leave policies, and the questions we ask without thinking

• Why "tell me about who matters to you" is a more inclusive question than "tell me about your family"

• The anger stage of grief, and why it was the easiest chapter of the book to write

• Finding and nurturing the allies in your life who will one day advocate for you without being asked

About Sandy

Sandy Langhart Michelet is an author, speaker, musician, and senior HR leader whose work bridges professional expertise with personal advocacy. Based in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA, she helps women navigate life when children are no longer part of the future they envisioned.

She is the founder of The Childless Life, a global private Facebook community of over 3,500 women offering connection, support, and honest conversation for women without children. Through The Childless Life (including its presence on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram) Sandy shares real stories, encouragement, and perspective for women learning to move forward when life takes an unexpected turn.

Believing that humor belongs even in life’s hardest moments, she brings honesty and levity to every conversation. Her debut book, My Family Tree Stops With Me, is a bold, soulful guide for anyone learning to live beyond the life they imagined - offering a path forward that honors what’s been lost while embracing everything that’s still possible.

Sandy lives with her husband, Craig, and their goldendoodle sidekick, Ryder.

Sandy is …

Reading: Brene Brown's Daring Greatly
Listening to: MasterClass Mindy Kaling
Watching: The Pitt

Continue the conversation: Join The Full Stop Community at thefullstoppod.com/fullstopcommunity

The Full Stop is a podcast for and about the childless not by choice community. New episodes available on all major podcast platforms

Transcript available at https://www.thefullstoppod.com/listen

Childless at the End of Life: What Nobody Tells You

This is one of those episodes that takes a little courage both to make, and perhaps to listen to. But we think you'll come away from it feeling more informed, less alone, and ready to take at least one step you've been putting off.

Death and end of life planning are topics most of us avoid. Add childlessness into the mix and the silence gets even louder because so much of the information, guidance and legal framework out there assumes that you have someone: a child, a close family member, someone who knows you and will step in when the time comes. For a growing number of people, that assumption simply doesn't hold.

In this episode we bring together three guests with distinct and complementary expertise to have the conversation that so many childless adults need and so rarely get.

In this episode we cover:

• What end of life planning actually means, from advanced care planning right through to after death

• Powers of attorney: what they are, how they work, and crucially, what your options are if you don't have someone you trust to appoint

• Advanced Statements and Advanced Decisions to Refuse Treatment and why Penny argues these matter more than most people realise

• The concept of social death and how childlessness shapes the experience of ageing and loss

• What happens to your belongings and why recording the provenance of meaningful items matters

• The gap in legal guidance around local authority funerals and why it urgently needs updating

• Why there is currently no central register of wills in England and Wales and what that means for people who die alone

• The role of animals in later life, and the organisations that can help

• Assisted dying legislation: what it means (and doesn't mean) for powers of attorney right now

Our guests:

Charlotte Dixon — wills and probate solicitor and lifetime lawyer

Professor Gail Letherby — sociologist and researcher specialising in childlessness, identity and the life course

Penny Shepherd — coordinator of Ageing Without Children East Kent and trustee of the Ageing Without Children (AWOC) charity

Please note: Nothing in this episode constitutes personal legal or financial advice. Laws and frameworks vary by country and region, always do your own research and consult a qualified professional for advice specific to your circumstances.

Resources and links mentioned:

Ageing Without Children (AWOC): awoc.org

Office of the Public Guardian (England & Wales): gov.uk/opg

National Will Register: nationalwillregister.co.uk

The Cinnamon Trust: cinnamon.org.uk

Cats Protection: cats.org.uk

Dogs Trust: dogstrust.org.uk

Ashes to Admin: Stories from the Caseload of a Local Authority Funeral Officer by Evie King

Continue the conversation: Join The Full Stop Community at thefullstoppod.com/fullstopcommunity

The Full Stop is a podcast for and about the childless not by choice community. New episodes available on all major podcast platforms

Download the transcript

Imagine If: Writing the Unspoken

What happens when a writer decides to break the silence around childlessness, but not with a neat resolution, but through the voices of two women whose stories span 4,000 years?

In this episode, Berenice and Michael are joined by Byddi Lee. She is the author of Barren (shortlisted for the 2025 Carousel Aware Prize for Independent Authors), The Rejuvenation Trilogy, and March to November. She has published flash fiction, short stories, and co-founded and manages the spoken word event Flash Fiction Armagh. Byddi also writes for stage and screen. Her climate-change play Toxic Relationships has been performed by Armagh Theatre Group in venues across Ireland regularly since 2023. Byddi is a member of BBC Writersroom Voices 23, is an Arts Council Northern Ireland supported writer and holds professional membership at the Irish Writers Centre in Dublin and the Society of Authors, UK.

For more information, visit www.ByddiLee.com.

Childless Voices: Celebrating Civilla Morgan

In this episode of The Full Stop, we are joined by Civilla Morgan, one of the earliest and most influential voices in the childless not by choice podcasting space. After ten years and 180 episodes, she shares her decision to step away from her podcast, a choice shaped by grief, timing, work, and deep self-reflection.

Together, we explore the emotional weight of long-term podcasting, the stories behind consistent content creation, and how grief can fundamentally change the decisions we make about our lives. Civilla reflects on what she’s learned about childlessness over a decade of conversations, including the shared undercurrent of grief that binds the community, even as each journey remains deeply individual.

We also talk about visibility, why so many people remain “hidden in plain sight,” the frustration of still being asked the same questions after years of advocacy, and why representation across many platforms and voices truly matters. Civilla speaks candidly about rest, redirection, and choosing to live a meaningful life even when the life you imagined didn’t happen.

This is an honest, generous conversation about endings, legacy, healing, and the courage it takes to know when something meaningful has run its course.

For more information, to join our online Community for childless people and appear on the Full Stop podcast please visit our website 

Letting Go of the Perfect Holiday Season

In this reflective end-of-year episode, we - Berenice, Sarah, and Michael - look back on the past year, the growth of the Full Stop, and the conversations that have shaped the Full Stop Community and wider childlessness community. We also turn gently towards the holidays, and Christmas, a season that can bring joy, grief, pressure, and loneliness in equal measure.

We explore how Christmas changes over time, particularly through grief and childlessness, and why it’s okay to step away, rewrite traditions, or opt out altogether. From rejecting Christmas completely to rediscovering it through quieter, more personal rituals, this episode offers permission to do the season differently.

The conversation touches on evolving grief, authenticity, community support, and letting go of the idea of a “perfect” Christmas and replacing it instead with compassion, flexibility, and self-kindness.

This episode is for anyone who feels conflicted about the holidays, unsure how it fits into their life now, or simply in need of reassurance that there’s no right way to do it.

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Childlessness and LGBTQ+:Identity, Activism and Belonging

Australian activist Michael Barnett joins us to talk about identity, queer visibility, childlessness not by choice, and what it means to advocate fiercely for others while holding private grief. A moving conversation about purpose, belonging, and the quiet ways we create legacy.

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Visit our website to join our supportive and friendly Full Stop Community for childless not by choice people, download the transcript of this episode and find out more about being our guest. Donate to our work with a virtual coffee.

If you like what you've heard, please do leave us a review, thank you.

Childless and Changing Relationships

In this heartfelt episode of The Full Stop, counsellor and author Meriel Whale joins the team to discuss how childlessness reshapes love, identity, and connection within relationships.

Together with Berenice, Sarah, and Michael, she explores what happens when partners experience grief at different paces, how intimacy and communication evolve after loss, and why understanding each other’s emotional landscape matters more than ever.

This conversation dives deep into the unspoken spaces — loneliness within couples, the struggle to ask for help, and the challenge of rebuilding closeness after childlessness. Insightful, compassionate, and full of warmth, it’s an invitation to slow down, listen differently, and find courage in the spaces between.

Owning Our Otherness

Reframing ‘Otherness’: A Conversation with Lana Manikowski

In our latest episode, we talk with author and coach Lana Manikowski about the experience of being “othered” as a woman without children. Lana describes how years of infertility led her to a new purpose: helping others define their lives beyond parenthood.

She speaks openly about shame, resilience, and the importance of investing in yourself — whether that means therapy, journaling, or creating community. Lana also shares the story of founding Others Day Brunch, an annual event that offers connection and celebration for those who feel isolated around Mother’s Day.

Lana Manikowski is an author, certified life coach, and infertility advocate dedicated to helping women thrive after infertility. She is the founder of The Other’s Day Brunch and host of The ‘So Now What?’ Podcast, creating spaces where childless women feel seen, understood, and empowered.

After a seven-year journey through fertility treatments that ended without a child, Lana experienced the isolation, self-judgment, and grief of navigating a future she never planned for. When she couldn’t find the support she needed, she built it herself. Now, through her coaching, advocacy efforts, and community outreach, she helps women rediscover their relevance, connection, and purpose beyond motherhood.

With an advanced coaching certification in grief and post-traumatic growth, Lana helps women process the loss of the dream of motherhood and move forward with intention. Her coaching program, Thrive After Infertility, guides women in rebuilding relationships and creating meaningful milestones that bring fulfillment in the decades ahead.

Her book So Now What?, a #1 New Release on Amazon, offers a transformative roadmap for embracing life beyond infertility, helping women reclaim joy, meaning, and a sense of belonging without the children longed for. A sought-after speaker and media contributor, Lana is known for her powerful message: your story isn’t over, it’s just beginning. She lives in downtown Chicago with her husband and their furbaby, Coco.

Download The Top 27 Things People Say When You Are Childless (...and how to respond). It ties perfectly into our conversation about othering because people with kids often love to offer suggestions for what we should be doing to achieve parenthood instead of acknowledging that we have already done what we are capable of. We know our bodies, our journeys, and our limits when it comes to what we choose to do or not do. I am also teaching a free masterclass on this in September. You can get the free guide here: 

So Now What?, my first book, came out in April. Berenice wrote one of the endorsements and Jody Day wrote the foreword. So Now What? is about creating a life you love without the children you always dreamed of. It is the guide I wish my fertility clinic had offered me when my seven years of IVF ended without a baby. There’s a free giveaway with a download of Jody’s foreword and Chapter 1, which shares the story of the day I got the call from my doctor telling me my last and only frozen embryo was chromosomally abnormal. Download your copy from my website.